The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

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The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by LghPuppy »

The future of Linux looks very, very thin:
A host of technologies -- most prominently CoreOS -- are challenging the foundation of what Linux means and how it's sold.

Has Linux become fat? According to CoreOS founder and CEO Alex Polvi, the answer is an emphatic "Yes!" As Linux workloads become ever more specialized, the need for a general purpose Linux distribution declines. Or, as one friend told me, "CoreOS is an existential threat to the Linux distributors."

The future of Linux, in short, may require an extensive diet. Fortunately, Linux's open source nature makes this kind of crash diet not only possible, but healthy. Whether it's equally healthy for the business of Linux is another matter.

Do I look fat in this server?
Over on InfoWorld, Paul Venezia has been harping on his idea for increasingly thin Linux. Venezia's idea and, indeed, a central tenet to CoreOS and its peers, is the reality that "there's a growing gulf not only between Linux desktop users and server admins, but also between Linux server use cases," as Venezia explains in a previous post.

Rather than a general purpose Linux with lots of functionality but also unnecessary cruft, Venezia envisions specialized, thin Linux distributions that do one thing well, like serving email. While not a new idea, it has gained considerable currency in the last few months with the rise of Docker and CoreOS.

Of the latter, Venezia writes:
"[CoreOS'] whole concept is an ultra-thin, bare-metal Linux build that is specifically tuned to run clusters of Docker container hosts. This, then, becomes the actual server 'distribution' in use for all computing resources. The containers running on top of that core can't really be considered servers, since they're usually running a single process and are probably more appropriately considered static processes that carry their own dependencies along with them....[T]his turns the concept of a Linux server distribution on its head."
When I asked CoreOS founder and CEO Alex Polvi about CoreOS' impact on traditional Linux distributions like Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, and SuSE, he said, "If we are successful, the base OS does not matter anymore."
Hubris? Maybe. But according to Gartner analyst Lydia Leong, CoreOS may not be a direct threat "so much as [it] 'expands [the Linux] market [while] tak[ing market] share in particular use case[s]'." Even so, she avers, it is "essentially" a clear and present danger to traditional Linux distributions.

But who will take out the trash?
Not that everyone is convinced. Justin Cormack, for example, notes that "Someone needs to still fulfill the distro functions, like security updates, although it is a smaller scope."

It's actually security that may be CoreOS' biggest selling point, according to Polvi. As he told me over email, CoreOS' update model "is in complete contrast to Red Hat, which every three to five years ships a big update which becomes a major migration effort within every IT org that runs it. Our model is in complete contrast, [with] lots of tiny updates that are automatically applied."

Polvi borrowed the idea from the browser world he lived in for a time at Mozilla, where he saw web security dramatically improve once Google Chrome started to automatically update browsers. Could the same thing be done for servers? If so, he told me, "CoreOS will be the only way to effectively manage [server security] going forward."

Right or wrong, it's definitely a change to how IT has traditionally managed Linux. But that may not matter, as IT may not be driving this Linux bus anymore.

Objections to thin Linux
At this week's Gartner Symposium, Gartner noted that 38% of total IT spending now comes from outside IT, a number expected to explode to 50% by 2017. Or, as Redmonk analyst Donnie Berkholz finds, "Departmental budgets coming from marketing and from lines of business are leaving IT, and over the course of a few years, this will transition to subtractions directly from IT's budget."

While developers can't claim all the credit for this change -- so-called Shadow IT, of which developers play a key role, makes up much of this shift away from IT -- developers are the ones tasked by their lines of business to build applications regardless of IT inertia.

And developers are driving Linux to get thinner and thinner.

"There's nothing new under the sun"
Some suggest that CoreOS isn't necessarily novel, that "CoreOS is just another Linux distribution with a strong opinion," as New Relic system administrator Kelsey Hightower phrases it. Others, like Chuck Short, speculate that CoreOS is "just another way of doing just enough OS."

Still others, like Twitter's Chris Aniszczyk, think that, even if new and different, it would "not [be] that hard for someone like Fedora to clone what they did with a 'spin'." He has a point, but as Simon Wardley intimates, it wouldn't be very easy for the big Linux vendors to change their business models overnight.

And yet something must change.

We've grown up with the idea that Linux can be all things to all people, running everything from mobile devices to supercomputers. While there are distributions optimized for these different hardware platforms, increasingly we need special-purpose Linux distributions for specific services, which aren't necessarily "distributions" at all.

Linux, in short, becomes a very thin service for modern developers. CoreOS is worth watching.
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by ChetanG »

Fact: as of February 2014 67.4% of all servers on the web were Unix based or Unix like (Linux)

For laptop and desktop computers Linux has a very small share of OS use at 1.4%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_shar ... ng_systems

But this has been the same numbers off and on for decades.

I really doubt that Linux is going down the drain.

Being open sourced means the world owns it and their are hundreds of thousands or rabid Linux users still around the world.

People with IT Billions love to talk big and swing their small weenies around in pissing contests. I hope this is all that this is. :)
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by LghPuppy »

ChetanG » 08 Oct 2014, 19:26 wrote:Fact: as of February 2014 67.4% of all servers on the web were Unix based or Unix like (Linux)

For laptop and desktop computers Linux has a very small share of OS use at 1.4%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_shar ... ng_systems

But this has been the same numbers off and on for decades.

I really doubt that Linux is going down the drain.

Being open sourced means the world owns it and their are hundreds of thousands or rabid Linux users still around the world.

People with IT Billions love to talk big and swing their small weenies around in pissing contests. I hope this is all that this is. :)
ChetanG I always look for your commits they are always filled with pearls of wisdom. :giggle:

I really think the point wasn't to say that Linux by any means is going away. I believe it is just the point of CoreOS updating sizes being smaller and less complicated for IT departments. From a security point of view.
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by ChetanG »

IDontHave1 » 08 Oct 2014, 19:47 wrote:
ChetanG » 08 Oct 2014, 19:26 wrote:Fact: as of February 2014 67.4% of all servers on the web were Unix based or Unix like (Linux)

For laptop and desktop computers Linux has a very small share of OS use at 1.4%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_shar ... ng_systems

But this has been the same numbers off and on for decades.

I really doubt that Linux is going down the drain.

Being open sourced means the world owns it and their are hundreds of thousands or rabid Linux users still around the world.

People with IT Billions love to talk big and swing their small weenies around in pissing contests. I hope this is all that this is. :)
ChetanG I always look for your commits they are always filled with pearls of wisdom. :giggle:

I really think the point wasn't to say that Linux by any means is going away. I believe it is just the point of CoreOS updating sizes being smaller and less complicated for IT departments. From a security point of view.
True so true brother.... RedHat and SuSE are paid for Linux use. I have used Fedora & OpenSuSE for over the last 10 years and counting.
Ever since Novell got it's greedy hands on UNIX, the greatest OS ever, at the time by AT&T, the Linux world took over by storm and now all things ICT have shifted.

The Information and Communication Technology in the late 20th century, promises to deliver a similar mixture of social stress and economic transformation.
It is driven by a handful of technologies--including machine intelligence, the ubiquitous web and advanced robotics--capable of delivering many remarkable innovations: unmanned vehicles; pilot less drones; machines that can instantly translate hundreds of languages; mobile technology that eliminates the distance between doctor and patient, teacher and student.

Whether the digital revolution will bring mass job creation to make up for it's mass job destruction remains to be seen.

And people are trying to remake everything their own new way. Thin Linux is interesting, but certainly not an answer for any PC or Server Linux issue.
This is another new concept that will end up fitting in our brave new world at some point.
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by LghPuppy »

Again Thanks.

If no others are enlighten by our spars, at least I am. :thumbup:
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by OnTheLimit »

The logistical problem in slimming down Linux is the eventual identity problem it could create; as a stable OS (and in conjunction with various shells and GUI front ends) it has been ever more frequently touted as a viable Windows alternative.

As any Programmer will tell you... it is hard to cut away code and yet leave all the features intact... :think:

Linux purists might think it has been bulking up, but in industry-standard perspective, it remains pretty lean and efficient.
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by ChetanG »

OnTheLimit » 09 Oct 2014, 09:56 wrote:The logistical problem in slimming down Linux is the eventual identity problem it could create; as a stable OS (and in conjunction with various shells and GUI front ends) it has been ever more frequently touted as a viable Windows alternative.

As any Programmer will tell you... it is hard to cut away code and yet leave all the features intact... :think:

Linux purists might think it has been bulking up, but in industry-standard perspective, it remains pretty lean and efficient.
So true OTL, the core of linux has been reworked for over 20 years and is in pretty thin shape anyway, once you remove the GUI.

When I loaded my first Linux distro, it was fedora and command line only and the installation fit easily on a regular DVD.

By the time wireless technology was a seamless installation with any Linux installation, the GUI was born in full demand, with Ubuntu moving in to the lead with the tens of thousands of disgruntled ex-windows users.

The Windows like GUI is what most ppl today are used to seeing and is like life; what we see on the outside is hardly of value or useful information to judge the truth of it.

Linux for the common user today is all about the GUI. The command line user without a GUI installed is a very small number indeed.

So I would imagine this thin linux is really about the use of a workable OS in small, portable machines.
These idiots are going to give the whole internet of things the trillion dollar try.

I say they are wasting their time and we don't need it.
I really don't want my refrigerator speaking in hindi that there is one egg that is awasting, or my toaster telling me it would love to make the 12 noon toast.

Do I need to talk to my toilet while driving home from work?

Really, the thin Linux issue is about making us humans into computers and everything we see in life to be improved by computing and online.

I will not be coming along for the ride. :)
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by lolek »

On my old laptop (win XP) i install linux (linux mint 17) and its realy fast and stable for internet (sufring,torrenting,etc),no need to think about antivirus (i use linux 4 years and never have some problems like virus.....) and i like it.
Windows are like one click software and you can finde all what you need in second on internet.No need of command line knowledge,just install what you need in short time with 3 mouse click. Linux is more complicated,without base knowledge of command line you are stuck and its harder to finde software's.
So my solution is dualboot :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by ChetanG »

lolek » 27 Dec 2014, 06:19 wrote: So my solution is dualboot :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The easiest way to install a Linux Distro OS is through a VM.

You can download Oracle's VirtualBox for free to your Windows PC and then create a "Guest" Linux OS.

Linux is a pure OS, that is the most elegant programmed OS ever.
It is programmed in C/C++ and Assembly for the machine specific architecture.

Windows is GUI based. Which means when you click on a button, you are executing a command that you could do from a shell.

We are spoiled with Windows and are becoming useless in a way.

Imagine making it across a wasteland on your last legs only to find a Debian based linux command line terminal at a water dispenser, in a way station.

All you have to do type is 'apt-get water' and you would see a liter bottle of water drop from case.
I'll bet most here would perish.
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Re: The future of Linux looks very, very thin...

Post by LghPuppy »

ChetanG » 27 Dec 2014, 07:55 wrote: We are spoiled with Windows and are becoming useless in a way.

Imagine making it across a wasteland on your last legs only to find a Debian based linux command line terminal at a water dispenser, in a way station.

All you have to do type is 'apt-get water' and you would see a liter bottle of water drop from case.
I'll bet most here would perish.
Well (pun) I didn't think of bottled water on my last build. But Windows does serve a good cup of Joe. :lol:
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